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Can I use this without having a Google or Apple account? I guess the answer is no. It's crazy that we are allowing these duopolies to be the arbiters of so many critical functions.

Arguments like this are the strongest for forced regulation and split up IMHO.



And - just to underline this point - drivers license is the de-facto Australian ID card.

I can't think of an actual complaint against embedding US companies into what is in practice an important part of NSWs local governance; we might already do that credit and finance to some degree. But it just looks like another little step at creating a delicate system with single points of failure and unreasonably influential power-brokers.


All personal opinions:

It comes down to alignment of incentives. Google (for the sake of argument) has got into so many facets of peoples' lives that it's hard to tell what's what. If you're percieved to have contravened one of the TOCs, or your credit card fails or something, you could have your account suspended with no recourse. And Google have shown time and again that they have zero interest in universal due process, fairness or customer service. That's fine - it's their business model and their call to make.

But it is fundamentally out of step with the provision of essential services which should be afforded to all.

And then add to that the fact that when it goes wrong it disproportionally affects those more vulnerable. It starts to look a lot like disenfranchisement of minorities. What if you suddenly have no phone or email, and that's your only way of communicating with your support network? What if Google decides to pull the plug on your phone and you don't have money to buy a new one?

On the flip side, the government has a monopoly on welfare, violence, justice, etc. That's a good thing, and it's negotiated by democracy. However, using that monoploy to coerce people into using commercial duopolies is fundamentally anti-democratic.


Isn’t the TurboTax / Windows monopoly with the IRS a similar case? Defacto standard gone monopoly for digital tax returns. I agree that the government cannot lock consumers into duopolies but you still have a choice to go and get a piece of plastic. They also really don’t have a choice if the objective is digital convenience —- outside of Apple and Google, there really isn’t any competition. If there were a proper, open mobile platform with no vendor lock in, I am sure NSW would support that as well.


You can still use other tax return software, don't have to use windows with turbo tax and on top of it, use software that generates paper returns.


Yep, I've been filing my taxes digitally for seven years (used paper forms before that) and I've never used TurboTax.


I file using Turbotax using a web browser on linux. Why do you mention Windows?


Part of the plan under the Five Eyes intelligence sharing agreement perhaps?


As of the moment, the digital version can't be used as ID


"The NSW Digital Driver Licence is accepted by most pubs and clubs, and NSW Police."

Literally paragraph 3 of the article.


These are pretty informal usages, I'd be more curious if you could renew your passport using the digital driver's license.


Nope. You need id? Drivers licence or passport. Try getting by without a licence in aus? You need a "proof of age card" which is a driver's licence in every way except does not allow you to drive.

Anyone who thinks you don't need a driver's licence or equivalent proof of age card is 100% having themselves on, there is no meaningful opt out.


Or open a bank account.


You can


I spoke to a JP a couple of days ago and she said they haven't been issued with a directive to accept it as ID when notarising forms so she wouldn't until she had received official word.


NSW liquor store employee, we were briefed on these last week and we accept them now.


If you sell a sixpack to a 17 y.o. you thought was 18 because they gave you a fake digital licence, that's one problem. If you witness a statdec making claims about a specific person because they gave you a fake digital licence, that's a different problem.


Do you always verify them with the QR reader app? It'd be pretty easy for somebody to display fake data on their own device.


I’m not sure there’s a single idea of what is an ‘official ID’ like you think there is. If I ask who you are and you show me your digital ID then you’ve just used it as an ID so clearly it can be used as ID. Just some organisations and people may choose not to accept it.


From the article:

"It’s optional and doesn’t replace the plastic card"


Yet.


You can say that about absolutely anything, therefore by itself it's meaningless.


You are right, but at some point there will be a new generation of politicians and the promises will be lost to the old generation.


It's going to be many decades before plastic cards go away, or the government is going to get really annoyed with old people screwing it up.


I have until October 2020 to replace my State ID with one that the US will recognize for flights. Luckily I can still use my passport for 8 more years instead of ponying up $35 to replace it right now.

My point is the government can and will make your life a pain.


Real ID is completely different from this, it's totally unfair to compare the two.


I'm not comparing the two, I'm comparing the roll out of the services.


You're right. And I'm sure Service NSW had the best intentions, but were ignorant to the wider implication.


Not Service NSW's remit to fix the world of tech. Most use Apple or Android, so that's what they did. It's logical and makes perfect sense. Want change? Demand it elsewhere. I love this app and initiative and am a user myself.


I have no doubt about good intentions of individuals. It's more about where the buck stops.


They're not exactly arbiters of critical functions, the government issuing the drivers licence is. This is just an additional convenience feature.


What do you need an account for? Does the APK not work if you sideload it?


Completely guessing here. But these kinds of things often defer to Google Play services for part of their trust model.


In that case, the government should publish an official version of the APK for people to use.




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