With a slide rule you can start from 92200 or so, long division with 9.22 gives 9.31 or so, next guess 9.265 is almost on point, where long division says that's off by 39.6 so the next approximation +19.8 is already 92,669.8... yeah the long divisions suck but I think you could get this one within 10 minutes if the interviewer required you to.
Also, don't take a role that interviews like that unless they work on something with the stakes of Apollo 13, haha
The only framework we have figured out in which LLMs can build anything of use, requires LLMs to build a robot and then we expose the robot to the real world and the real world smacks it down and then we tell the LLMs about the wreckage. And we have to keep the feedback loops small and even then we have to make sure that the LLMs don't cheat. But you're not going to give it the opportunity to decrease the wealth tax or increase the income tax so it will never get the feedback it needs.
You can try to train a neural network with backpropagation to simulate the actual economy, but I think you don't have enough data to really train the network.
You can try to have it build a play economy where a bunch of agents have different needs and different skills and have to provide what they can when they can, but the "agent personalities" that you pick embed some sort of microeconomic outlook about what sort of rational purchasing agent exists -- and a lot of what markets do is just kind of random fad-chasing, not rationally modelable.
I just don't see why you'd use that square peg to fill this round hole. Just ask economics professors, they're happy to make those predictions.
The metagame within 1kbwc is that at the end of play people generally vote on which new cards to keep for seeding the next game, and which to discard. So you get a rush of joy if everybody liked your card and wants to keep it.
For an example of metagame play, one deck developed Angry Sheep, Sleepy Sheep, a bunch of sheeps, plus some rule card of "if there are more than five sheep, the person with the most sheep wins." People liked those, so they kept them. Then someone created a different card called the Sheep Herder, all of a player's sheep get stacked under the Sheep Herder, which passes one player to the left every time a sheep is played, so it slowly goes around the circle vacuuming up sheep. People liked this but started making Angry Goat, Sleepy Goat etc. so that they could have an alternate victory condition. Which led to the Goat Herder card that goes to the right as new goats are played. The meta-joke then reached its peak with the Herder Herder, which picks up Herders and moves them around the board, dropping the things that they are herding as it moves.
The key to 1kbwc is that anyone can at any time create a card that says "I win the game" but that is no fun, not unless someone has a card called Counterspell that says "play me at any time to discard a card that some other player is playing, before it takes effect" etc. The metagame of 1kbwc allows the deck to become its own story and the players of the many rounds after rounds of it, are rewarded as the storytellers.
> anyone can at any time create a card that says "I win the game" but that is no fun [..] The metagame of 1kbwc allows the deck to become its own story
Yep exploring this question collaboratively is of course the real activity. Depending on your perspective it's barely recognizable as a game, or it's the ultimate / only game. Also kinda related here is Carse on finite and infinite games and Wittgenstein on language games[1,2]. It is "only" philosophy, but also feels ripe for more rigorous treatment
Presumably a good theoretical treatment would try to look at how games and their meta's are related: how the number and stability of rules changes the richness of interaction, enjoyment, flexibility in strategy, average duration and tolerable length of game-play, etc
I'm not entirely sure what algebraic property you would prove with this, but you probably could prove something about it. The issue is that they have repeating continued fraction representations, and large numbers in the continued fraction correspond to very good rational approximations, and so you'd find that a bunch of these chosen at random have pretty good rational approximations, which assuming the denominator is co-prime to 10, probably means that it explores the space of digits too uniformly? Something like that.
The approach I was thinking of is that you'd prove normality or the lack thereof, a notoriously open problem for virtually all irrational roots. Continued fractions might be fruitful, but I suspect you'd eventually run one of the many other open problems in that space instead.
There are a bunch of tricks like this. So for instance to make antibiotic-free chicken without a commitment to being antibiotic-free and organic, raise a bunch of chickens, take any who gets sick enough to need antibiotics and put them into a separate field with their antibiotics, sell the ones that happen to not get sick as antibiotic-free, sell the other ones as usual.
Or, if you're making orange juice, make the ingredients label say oranges. But you can split it up, take the peels, put them into a hydraulic press, extract out oils that have the concentrated aroma and flavor of oranges, homogenize some of that into the juice. Or you can centrifuge the juice, or you can pass it through osmotic filters to remove some of the water and concentrate the flavor. No rule saying you can't treat some of the juice similar to sugar beet juice and try to isolate its sugars. At the end, you reassemble a perfect consistent mixture. The label doesn't have to tell you about any of this, it just has to tell you that the ingredients were oranges.
(The recipe for the best lemonade you'll ever make is like this, it's just lemons and water and sugar, but you zest the lemons into the simple syrup you're making with the sugar water, then strain it with cheesecloth or a coffee filter, before adding to the juice and water and pulp.)
Imported oils, you can basically do anything that some middleman country allows you to do with the oil (in particular mix with cheaper oils) and then say "oh this is imported olive oil, olive oil according to someone else's standards”...
> So for instance to make antibiotic-free chicken without a commitment to being antibiotic-free and organic, raise a bunch of chickens, take any who gets sick enough to need antibiotics and put them into a separate field with their antibiotics, sell the ones that happen to not get sick as antibiotic-free, sell the other ones as usual.
I think I'm ok with this. It means you can't routinely feed them all antibiotics, and people aren't eating chickens who had antibiotics.
People are still eating them, they’re just people who weren’t willing to pay extra for non-antibiotic chickens.
There’s a withdrawal period for livestock medication for all slaughter, so no one should be eating animals that were recently medicated. IIRC it’s 30 days for LA200, the antibiotic I used for my flock.
American, never heard of this. Some quick searching, and I found an Australian dairy site which describes this as permeated milk. From this advert piece it might be a way of ensuring that the milk fat/protein ratios can be easily adjusted to hit some target numbers.
PSA that melatonin use was way out of control before this study was even published.
Sleep aid melatonin is shipped in pills containing ridiculous amounts of the stuff—I’ve seen 10, 12, and 20mg myself, Amazon has a 40mg fast dissolve and 60mg gummies.
This spikes your blood amount with 100x-1000x of your natural cycle of melatonin. Why? Because melatonin is not, repeat not, the signaling molecule that makes you sleepy. It responds to light levels and triggers the cascade of other molecules that make you sleepy, several hours after it peaks. So that's why the 100x overdose—you are trying to kick those secondary mechanisms into overdrive, “hey everyone it is black as the abyss of hell I guess we gotta sleep!!”, because Americans taking melatonin want to pop one just before bed and have it knock them out.
And it does that for like 2 or 3 days before your body starts down-regulating all of its sensitivities to those melatonin byproducts. Nerve cells like to be tickled, not zapped, when you shock them like this they react angrily.
You want to use melatonin to reinforce circadian rhythm and fight jet lag, you do it with amounts in the ~100 micrograms range, slow release if you can find it, and you take that at sunset and let it reinforce your normal cycle. If you're looking for an acute sleep aid, take a walk, get fresh air, drink water, and if those don't help pop a Benadryl/Unisom (it's the same drug either way). If you have doctor’s orders of course follow those, but if you're just trying to self-medicate that’s how you do it.
Absolutely unsurprising that punching your sleep apparatus in the gut once every day for five years increases some sort of stress on your heart.
In grad school I got to attend a talk by one of the researchers who was involved in the discovery of melatonin as a sleep aid for humans. He said that his team had hoped for it to become a prescription medicine dosed at 500 mcg, because anything higher gave paradoxical effects and actually made sleep worse. But it ended up being classified as a supplement in the US rather than a drug, so they had no way to control the dosage on the market.
The other useful thing I learned is that melatonin isn't primarily involved in falling asleep, its main function as a hormone is in staying asleep. I've started taking it sporadically if I wake up in the middle of the night, to make sure I get back to a deep sleep and stay there, and it seems to be super effective for this.
I suspect each brand tries to put more to out-compete with other brands.
People look at multivitamins and think “more is better”. Unfortunately they are stuffed with ingredients that can’t be absorbed well together, but do result in higher sales…
I've taken it rarely, but not found it to be a panacea on the night I'm having trouble sleeping. That is, if it isn't already early when I take it, I'm positively trashed for the morning after. The next night is when I find that taking one early helps in catching up.
> He said that his team had hoped for it to become a prescription medicine dosed at 500 mcg, because anything higher gave paradoxical effects and actually made sleep worse.
Tangentially, I'm reminded of this interview around ~31m.
TL;DR they found something that promoted deeper sleep, but people didnt necessary feel "well rested", and so it was shelved for something that subjectively improved sleep but actually reduced the quality of sleep.
There was a collection of studies about a decade ago that seemed to determine the optimal use of Melatonin was about 350 micrograms taken about 1 hour before bed. The ideal was also slow release which was the best you could do to match the bodies process currently. The doses you can buy are far too high even the 1.5mg ones.
Just so you know, some doctors recommend being careful with melatonin for kids since it’s a hormone and there’s not a ton of research on long-term effects. They say it might disrupt sexual development during adolescence. Kids produce more melatonin naturally and it is though that a reduction in melatonin production during adolescence is actually what triggers pubertal development. Might be worth looking into a bit more before making it something regular.
When I brought up melatonin with a sleep doctor a few years ago she agreed with my understanding that given a lack of uncontroversial studies its unclear whether it is a health risk or not.
It can be difficult to find low dose melatonin unfortunately. Especially in slow release.
Often kids sleep tablets are better. Also kids chewable gummies can be cut in half to get an effective dosage. I've not found a good long release version of those.
i bought a bottle from cvs. 60 gummies each 5 mg. my kid was having trouble sleeping and these worked like a sledghammer, it was great! also comical, knowing the dose was way too high, i would slice the pinky-fingernail-sized gummy into 10 tiny pieces. “do you want this gummy?” “can i have more?” “no” “do you still want the little piece” “yes”. so then she would try to make it last by sort of licking it or just taking it in and out of her mouth and it would get lost of forgotten- funny business.
anyway, we dropped off the use of the sledgehammer precipitously as we wanted her to develop her own sleep skills and avoid any of these lesser known potentially negative effects. we still keep the (lifetime supply)tool in our back pocket for rare occasions, like traveling.
> you take that at sunset and let it reinforce your normal cycle
Yes, the way Michael Grandner explains it in this podcast[0], melatonin is an ancient molecule that signals, "it is dark." If you give it to nocturnal species, it wakes them up!
Are you sure about this? Everything I can find says Benadryl is diphenhydramine, and Unisom is doxylamine. (Both linked to increased dementia risk, for what it's worth.)
Yes, I would use first generation antihistamines like those sparingly as they are anticholergenic. It's more of a long term concern rather than for occasional use.
For the low dose melatonin, Life Extension brand sells patented MicroActive formula of fast release/slow release melatonin in a 1.5mg dosage and a 6 hour time released 300mcg version. It's a quality brand and those are the dosage ranges I would recommend sticking around.
I have seen the insanely high 30mg+ amounts being sold and that's ridiculous. If you need that much, there's other factors going on. I would look into reducing caffeine intake, doing proper sleep hygiene (google it), and talk to a doctor/get a referral to a sleep specialist if it's an ongoing thing.
But, also look into l-theanine, glycine/magnesium glycinate, valerian root extract, passionflower, lemon balm and things of that sort for occasional sleeplessness or trouble falling asleep. (Visit examine.com & ergo-log.com and search for these ingredients on there to see all the references, how they work, and for more info.)
Natural isn't necessarily better, but I would recommend those any day over Z drugs, antihistamines and a lot of other rx sleep drugs. Make sure you're buying a quality brand though.
Finally, please don't give melatonin to children...
I’ll never understand the desire of people to take pills for everything. There are always side effects. If you have a medically diagnosed acute or chronic condition and there’s not another option that’s one thing. But if you can eat better, be more active, lose excess weight, etc that’s what you should try to do.
They're both first generation antihistamines and work as agonists on the H1 receptor, causing sedation. There's no reason to choose one over the other for a first time user, but they can cause rapid tolerance. So, I'm guessing the only reason they offer both is if you'd become tolerant to one of them and can no longer fall asleep on it.
I mean it's understudied, but at the very least you have [1], children given high doses daily of melatonin developed delayed sleep/wake cycles when measured by DLMO (the time of day that your endogenous melatonin starts to rise) and that “Nearly all children who temporarily discontinued melatonin experienced a delay in sleep onset time,” both of which strongly suggest downregulation is happening. (Usually endogenous melatonin skews earlier with melatonin supplementation, see [2].)
Similar inefficacies have been seen clinically e.g. in [3] and are (caution, anecdata) widespread on the internet, with "melatonin doesn't work" being a popular search term with tons of articles about it. An honest to goodness test seems to have been done at [4] where they made sleep disturbance symptoms "disappear" by resuming treatment at a lower dosage, but instead of blaming the neurons they are blaming the liver, saying that it got overloaded and couldn't clear melatonin out of the bloodstream anymore in some patients—I just want to include that as a plausible alternative explanation so that you don't take my words as gospel truth or anything. I’m trained as a physicist, not a physician, and there is this meme of people with physics degrees thinking that everybody else’s field is their expertise and like I want to be deliberately self conscious about my limitations here.
From streetlights everywhere, emergency vehicles blasting sirens at all hours, trains blasting horns (miles away but are still audible), its no surprise that Americans are struggling to sleep if this is your environment.
I know someone with a condition (I don't recall the name of it) but it actually calls for these massive doses of melatonin (up to 100 mg). The vast majority of people wanting to use it should start LOW- as in 0.25-0.5 mg.
We lost this fight at least by 1994 when Sun acquired “Thinking Machines,” which to its credit was bankrupting itself by making highly parallel supercomputers, at least. Now of course there is a new AI company of the same name. If the wrestling world echoes the computing world, one can only wonder what in 5-10 years will be the equivalent of Undertaker throwing Mankind off of Hell In A Cell to plummet 16 feet down through an announcer’s table...
I mean pohl's joke above whooshed kjmh so it's all fine. The important thing for threads like this one is for us to name drop all of the weird programming languages that we have used, publicly avow the greatness of ones that we have not, and make a New Year's resolution that we will never follow, to actually pick up those great languages and write something in them...
You don't get it from language tooling because you are compiling to a bytecode that runs in a virtual machine (BEAM).
The current tool to wrap your bytecode with a VM so that it becomes standalone is Burrito[1], but there's some language support[2] (I think only for the arch that your CPU is currently running? contra Golang) and an older project called Distillery[3].
Also, don't take a role that interviews like that unless they work on something with the stakes of Apollo 13, haha
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