This is a device that doesn't support other browser rendering engines or even toy compilers, long way to go before something like VSCode could be possible, a product that let's you trivially slipstream in any renderer/script engine/compiler you want at a single click.

Plus would it really be an "iPad" with you sacrifice the whole security model to allow debugging?

VS Code has incredibly good "remote" debugging setups. [0]

You can install a VS Code "server" on e.g. your Linux developer machine, then connect to it via your VS Code "client" on your iPad. You get local intellisense and the like, but actual execution of code is done on your Linux server.

You can replace Linux server with Windows, or even containers (so you can have your "server" be a local Linux docker image if you're on Windows but want to develop locally on Linux, for example).

I realize this is a higher barrier to use, but I could seriously see using it in this way.

[0] https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/remote-overview

I am currently attempting to use an iPad Pro in this fashion (code server running on a DO droplet)... it is quite difficult and developer-hostile. For instance, until I upgraded the OS to iPadOS (it was on iOS 13.3), the cursor keys on my bluetooth keyboard did not move the cursor inside the code editor pane! Also, if you have anything at all copied to the iPad's clipboard, pressing the Escape key (say I'm using Vim inside the VSCode "terminal" pane) will reveal iPadOS's own clipboard popup. Overall, I strongly recommend staying away from this setup for any serious remote VSCode work.

> the cursor keys on my bluetooth keyboard did not move the cursor inside the code editor pane

This is a bug with Monaco, Visual Studio Code’s editor component, which does not support mobile browsers.

It's more usable to use jump desktop and vnc into your desktop computer to use vs code.

"toy compilers"

FYI, there are at least two. The Swift playgrounds app.

And Pythonista, which is actually quite a nice IDE for small projects, and even lets you build GUIs.

Take a look at how ChromeOS accomplishes Crostini in containers for a great way to get everything you want with near-zero security hit.

> Plus would it really be an "iPad" with you sacrifice the whole security model to allow debugging?

The security model being that you need to be attached to a Mac to allow debugging? Other than that I'm totally with you. The ipad is far away from being a frictionless, general computation device.

The security model being that debugging requires the user to take significant steps, and isn't something apps can just do silently, yes.

The platform does support not only toy compilers but also full compilers, albeit through user mode emulation, so don’t even think about performance. See iSH: https://ish.app/

How exactly would debugging sacrifice the security model?

Debugging allows arbitrary code execution. Essentially you allow developers to debug running applications on their iPad, you allow them to run any code they want on it (maybe with extra steps, but that is the unavoidable inevitable result).

I'm not against it, but I am saying that's quite different from the iPad's current security model. You're giving developers root, maybe with extra steps, but root none the less.

> You're giving developers root, maybe with extra steps, but root none the less.

No you aren't. It's arbitrary code execution in the target app's sandbox which is already doing arbitrary code execution in the first place. You know, the thing that you compiled & ran before you ever attached a debugger? Every iOS app is already doing arbitrary code execution. That's the whole point of apps. And the security model holds up just fine.

iOS's restrictions on JIT'ing is about App Store control, not security.

If arbitrary code execution means trivial privilege escalation, your OS is broken.

Arbitrary code execution requires some kind of privilege escalation. If it's impossible, I don't have much interest in your OS.

That is only true under an odd definition of privilege. There are certainly hardening and auditing benefits of preventing arbitrary code execution, but defining code execution itself as a form of privilege in and of itself is unusual.

I understand why Apple does this, but having owned an iPad without ever successfully being productive on it I just wish I could get root if I really want to. I wish it were hackable.

Revoke my warranty, do whatever, just let me use the device I bought!

It's gotta be the most beautiful hardware of a machine I've seen. It's a shame the software is so anti-user.

The discussion is debugging other processes, none of those can do that. If you cannot hook and debug e.g. Node.js then VSCode on iPad isn't useful.

An awful lot of people use VSC without ever using its debugging features.

Additionally, what is Apple’s vision for MacOS going forward? Presumably MacOS isn’t coming to the iPad, so is iPadOS coming to the Mac? I’m sad that MacOS may soon be meeting it’s end, and how in some weird ways, Microsoft is starting to be more Linuxy than Apple.

Is there a reason it has to be one or the other? MacOS is the best operating system for power users or content creators. iPadOS is the best operating system for personal computer users. That seems like the vision to me.

Agreed. But the dilemma is Apple is not encouraging content creation on macOS. E.g., no important content creation apps are Sandboxed[0], so they can't be in the Mac App Store. And their latest development push, Catalyst and SwiftUI, is about cross-platform parity of low-powered apps, it does nothing for high-powered content-creation apps.

With few exceptions, content creation has not been successful on iPadOS. And for the last ten years, Apple has made building content creation apps systemically more difficult on macOS, e.g., with Notarization, Sandboxing, restricted file-system access, restricting Apple Events, deprecating built-in scripting languages, neglecting AppKit, and replacing WebView with the incomplete WKWebView.

In the current situation, iPadOS has been a dead end, and the Mac is, depending on your perspective, either moving backwards, or at best treading water.

It's not a good situation.

[0]: https://blog.robenkleene.com/2019/08/07/apples-app-stores-ha...

> no important content creation apps are Sandboxed[0], so they can't be in the Mac App Store

Logic Pro, Final Cut Studio, Motion

Considering the Best Picture Oscar winner was cut with Final Cut, I’d say that’s an “important” content creation app.

I agree that all content creation apps aren’t on the store, but you said “no important” ones, which isn’t factual.

Final Cut and Logic are not sandboxed (not sure about Motion), they are only in the Mac App Store because Apple lets their own apps skirt the rules.

UPDATE: "Parasite" was also edited on Final Cut Pro 7, released in 2009, which is not only deadly commentary on Apple's failure to accommodate content creators on it's own, it also predates not just sandboxing (2011), but the entire Mac App Store (2010).

How would anyone develop apps for the other platforms if this were true?

How can they do that while maintaining their Maginot line against user-defined code so they can keep getting their 30% cut from the app store?

do you know about visual studio online?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/online/overvie...

maybe it is possible to self-host this as well...

There’s still other issues like keyboard shortcuts that don’t work as expected. I can’t find the link right now but there was a long github issue about all the iPad problems.

I'm in the same boat. I'd love to have a real terminal where I could run emacs.

There is one: https://ish.app

Open beta, but sadly not released to the App Store yet. Works quite well.

Animation CPU is developer friendly and should be available soon

https://animationcpu.herokuapp.com

This. It's sexy but it's still basically a glorified iPhone. At this price it should be running full macOS.

Why? It's not really more expensive than an iPhone 11. Ipad 11 pro 128gb = e899, iphone 11 128gb = e859, just 40 euro difference. Why should it run a full os when price is almost equal?

But why does that have to be how it is? Why shouldnt I be able to compile c++ programs, go programs, etc? needing an ipa is an arbitrary restriction dev wise

Also you can run js, node, etc just fine right now on an iPad (but not node and that sucks)

My issue is you’re asking for Pepsi before Coke has been invented, if that’s an effective metaphor?

It’s like, slow down, let’s get Apple’s own native solution in there before we get a third party one?

If not only to make sure it’s done right?

Currently the App Store’s restriction that it can’t run arbitrary code is the best one.

I disagree and would love to run arbitrary code on a device I own.

> Swift or Obj-C in XCode is the only way to end up with a .ipa you can run...

No.

Statement: The Web.

That would be a dream setup

Have you tried TextTastic?

Its a good editor but theres no auto completion, debugging, ability to compile, etc

I see what you mean.

I suppose if the iPad can't download other binaries to load in the background (like the C# or C++ dependencies), VSCode is never going to come to it.

It's still just a consumption / Etch-A-Sketch device despite all the marketing about how wonderful it is for creation. It's good for making basic music/practicing guitar for me, but other than that my iPad is just for reading/browsing.

Yup and it sucks becauee its completely arbitrary and apples decision that it isnt unleashed. If I could I would use my iPad like 9/10 times vs my Macbook

Please sell me your MacBook cheap if/when this happens.