Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

When I was a child in Bavaria I was often called by house name + given name, in that order, especially by the elderly. The house name is different from the family name which appears in official documents like the birth certificate.

Another difference between northern and southern Germany is the Münchner-Du and the Hamburger-Sie. In standard German we use the formal pronoun Sie with the last name in formal situations and the informal pronoun Du with the given name in informal situations. Nowadays in semi-formal situations, like between colleagues at work, it's completely informal but two or three decades ago it wasn't. Officially the workplace was supposed to be formal and often it was, but in many cases a mixture between formal and informal forms was common.

In the north people tended to use the formal Sie but in conjunction with the given name, like Markus, können sie bitte das Auto holen." (Marcus, can thee get the car, please.), whereas in Bavaria the opposite combination of informal Du combined with the family name was prevalent, like *"Du, Frau Müller, kannst Du bitte das Auto holen." (You, Mrs. Miller, can you get the car please.)



> Marcus, can thee get the car, please.

Two notes:

First, you'd use "thou" here, as it's the nominative case, and the correct conjugation would be "canst".

Secondly, "thee" and "thou" were very much the form used to speak to a close friend or social inferior in early modern English. "You" functioned more like French "vous" or German "Sie"- as either a plural formation or a formal address of a social superior.

With that in mind, it would probably be more accurate to say that they should be rendered "Marcus, can you get the car, please?" and "Mrs. Miller, canst thou get the car, please?" And notice the parallel between "canst thou" and "kannst Du"!


Thank you, I wondered when I wrote it, if its that simple and if I should try to given an English equivalent at all, but did't have time to research it. Your comment saved me from that.


Aren't those name/pronoun mismatches in both cases a clear expression of status gradient? "I consider you close but I certainly don't consider you a peer". I suppose that neither of those drivers would reply in similar form. (though far less unlikely in the munich variant I think). An exception would be a recurring pattern of ironically using the family name like a nickname in youth language. Perhaps male only youth language, but very much an entirely different thing from those Munich/Hamburg oddities.


I'm from Bavaria, so can only really speak about the Munich version with some confidence, and I think it is usually used symmetrically. The German Wikipedia entry about the Hamburger-Sie specifically discusses the status gradient, so you definitely have a point there. Maybe it is even true for the Munich version and I just never heard it used like that.




Consider applying for YC's Fall 2026 batch! Applications are open till July 27.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: